Beaumont Health Royal Oak Michigan

Union Free at Willie B

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Beaumont Health Hospital nurses oppose unionization effort

Letter to Commissioner David T. Woodward


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82 Responses to Beaumont Health Royal Oak Michigan

  1. Unions strike February 5, 2020 at 19:25 #

    The nurses that support the union ALSO support striking! I work with nurses that are willing to strike. I work with nurses that are contingent in the EC and I was told ” oh we just want to threaten a strike, we just want to take it down to a couple of hours before walking out”. Is that the stress you want at work? You pay to not know if you are coming to work the next day? Be very careful of what you want. You have to thoroughly think through what consequences a union will bring.

  2. Union Free # 2 January 26, 2020 at 20:23 #

    This message is for any Beaumont nurse that is “on the fence” about joining the union. I have worked at a union hospital. I voted against a strike. I needed money to pay bills, because when you are ON STRIKE, you do not get PAID! I crossed the line, got nasty letters from the union, and when the strike was over I was told my job was no longer available. That’s because the hospital restructured all the nursing positions while they decided not to work. So, that is what a union did for me. I got nasty letters because I had to pay my school loans and other bills. My family was approached and harrassed. I was told I needed to “exhaust my bank account” before I even thought of crossing the line! I faithfully paid my dues and it still didn’t save my contingent job that I liked very much. So, before you go and sign your “union card” you have to do some serious thinking and check your bank account to make sure you have enough money to cover a strike. Once you sign the card, you are fully EXPECTED to go on strike.

  3. Megan Clippard June 13, 2019 at 07:59 #

    Hi everyone, I am a Beaumont Nurse Practitioner and have worked here for 20 years. I do not want the union here, I absolutely do not want them representing me! I am sure I will be asked if I truly work here by one individual and the answer is yes! While I’m sad and upset over many recent things over the past few years that have occurred at Beaumont, I recognize that this is happening all over our country. Healthcare is broken, we all know that. This response of unionizing however, will only divide us which can never be the answer in seeking change. I believe as healthcare providers we all want the same basic thing, to provide excellent care for our patients. If we all come together in the health care community we can move mountains. To do that though it is paramount to stop all the squabbling and waste of time rhetoric as that only perpetuates this mess of a situation. This is not magical thinking as I believe I will also be accused of, it’s the way things have to be for change to occur.

    • Anony-moose June 14, 2019 at 14:56 #

      Hmmm…where have I heard about the potential for the hospital to permanently replace striking nurses. I know I heard it somewhere. Ohhhhh yeah, it was from those lyin’ “union busters.” Seems like they were right! Please watch the video.

      • Anony-moose June 14, 2019 at 14:59 #

        “We felt that getting the striking nurses back into the hospital to go to work would be the best way to protect their jobs and protect them from being permanently replaced.”

        Union Director Rich (Dick?) Rankin

  4. Jim Bixler June 13, 2019 at 07:07 #

    What does the MNA say about the HV contract debacle? I was a 30+ year DMC RN before transitioning to the Beaumont Health system. I have heard from many of my former colleagues regarding this issue and none of the correspondence is positive. They feel betrayed by the MNA quite frankly. They say they are now paying dues for the same benefits, pay etc. that thief non-union colleagues have.

  5. Tamara Webster June 11, 2019 at 12:36 #

    Hello Beaumont Nurses!

    We have started to circulate a petition showing MNA that the majority of Beaumont RNs are not interested in a union. We are hoping that we can accomplish this before MNA tries to file for a vote. Why before a vote? Because pro-union has done a great job of getting administration’s attention, they are listening! We can stand together, make changes and improvements on our own, without MNA. We have the leverage NOW, without starting to smear Beaumont’s name and reputation, striking or picketing. Why would they negotiate with us now? Because they do not want the union!

    Sign the petition here:

    I am the ONLY person that will see this petition until we have enough signatures to move forward. If you have any questions feel free to comment, email me: or email my Beaumont email.

    Thank you!

    • Elizabeth Reegen July 2, 2019 at 11:04 #

      Where will I sign, I accidentally log in the pro union siteI did not expect the things bring discussed

      • Tamara Webster July 2, 2019 at 17:31 #

        Hi Elizabeth! I will email you tomorrow! Thank you!

  6. Bob Siver June 11, 2019 at 02:33 #

    Hello Beaumont nurses,
    you’re all invited to join us for happy hour at Duggan’s (on Woodward, north of 13 Mile Rd), every Tuesday 1500-1900 and every Thursday 1700-2100. Look for the red shirts.
    Don’t be afraid to sit and talk with us- you won’t be the first nurse who just thought they were anti-union until they heard what we have to say about the MNA.

  7. Bob Siver June 5, 2019 at 13:17 #

    Hey, Beaumont nurses,
    just a reminder- there’s an NP organizing meeting 1830-2030 Thursday, June 6 at the Royal Oak Community Center @ 3500 Marais (Crooks-Normandy area, by the high school). There’ll be nurse practitioners from Huron Valley Sinai and/or UofM to answer any questions you may have about how they function in a union environment.

  8. Bob Siver May 25, 2019 at 19:20 #

    Just a reminder to Beaumont RN’s (especially Royal Oak, but also Troy, Grosse Pointe, Farmington, etc.):
    Saturday, June 1, 0930-1100, you’re all invited (and I do mean all- pro, anti, and everyone in between) to a meeting at the Bloomfield Twsp Public Library on Telegraph Road. And you Beaumont nurses who still think you’re against the Michigan Nurses Association- don’t fall for the phony scare stories you hear about being unwelcome. If you’re a Beaumont nurse, we want to hear what you’re thinking.
    Also, don’t forget to check out ‘RNs Unite’ on Facebook. There’s no secret passwords or handshakes (not pointing fingers) necessary to gain entry, because no one has anything to hide. If you’re a Beaumont nurse (or even a former Beaumont nurse working at UofM, of whom there are many- and why is it we don’t get many UofM nurses coming to work at Beaumont?) you’re welcome at ‘Rns Unite’.
    Anyone with questions can contact me on my Beaumont email.

  9. Marissa Zamora (Cuellar) May 25, 2019 at 14:49 #

    Hi all, my name is Marissa Zamora, RN, currently employed full time in a unionized facility in Texas. From personal experience I am not supportive of unions in my profession for several reasons. Nurses are intelligent professionals who have the capability of creating change when it’s needed without having to pay an outside source (unions) to do it for you. The biggest things that stood out to me while dealing with a Union coming into my facility was it immediately created an “us vs. them” environment. This had a direct negative impact on the delivery of care to our patients. Regardless of what anyone says, it is inevitable. The next thing that truly stood out to me was that I recognized that the pro-union nurses were all about money. It became their priority. Yes, I understand money is important but if that’s the reason you chose this profession, your patient will know within minutes of you walking into their room. There’s a huge difference between those and the ones who chose nursing because they truly care about people. The third thing that stood out to me was I had to give up my autonomy. I could no longer negotiate with my employer whether it be regarding wages, conditions, ideas for change, etc. The response became “ Go talk to your rep.” One more thing that really bothered me was when I found out some of the Union dues was supporting political issues such as abortion. Once you’re in a Union you don’t have a say in what or who they support politically. Yes I have experienced the empty promises, but I’ve also seen some good come from unions even if it’s a small improvement. The thing is I firmly believe that improvement would have taken place without the presence of the Union. They will zone in on a few easy targets and seriously brain wash them into thinking they will somehow possess all this power to make all these incredible changes. Unions specialize in half-truths and propaganda and it saddens me that so many nurses fall for it. I highly stress before making a decision, a nurse needs to thoroughly research all the pros and cons of unionization. That is what I did. And that is why I do not support unions in my profession. Good luck to all the nurses in this work-life changing decision. I pray you make the right one.

  10. Bob Siver May 24, 2019 at 18:52 #

    from the Michigan Nurses Association bylaws (LBU= local bargaining unit):
    ” a. The (MNA) Board of Directors shall have the right to place any LBU into trusteeship for violations of LBU bylaws, MNA Bylaws or the provisions of this Article or for such other reasons as are permitted by law. b. Purpose for which a trusteeship may be established by the Board of Directors are: 1) A trusteeship may be imposed on a LBU by the Board of Directors only for the purposes of: a) correcting corruption; b) correcting financial malpractice; c) assuring the performance of collective bargaining agreements, or other duties of a collective bargaining representative; d) restoring democratic procedures; e) otherwise carrying out the legitimate objectives of an LBU. 2) Trusteeships will ordinarily be imposed on a LBU only after full and fair hearing by a committee of the Board of Directors. However, in emergency circumstances, a trusteeship may be imposed by the Board of Directors on a LBU prior to a full and fair hearing. In that event, the committee of the Board of Directors shall later hold a full and fair hearing on the issue of trusteeship.”

    Good stuff.
    Too bad Beaumont didn’t have similar bylaws- it might have prevented them from defrauding the government (too bad to the tune of $87 million).

  11. Elise Hibbard May 23, 2019 at 09:09 #

    I am a Beaumont RN. I do NOT want a union. I have experience with unions as a Manager at another hospital and I can tell you its part of the reason I left, it had me doing unfair and horrible things to my staff because of that damn contract. It tied my hands when it came to helping my staff and being a supportive and understanding manager. It sucked. Don’t do it. The first thing I asked during my interview was whether Beaumont was union. I continued the interview process because they aren’t, and I will leave the hospital if we bring a union in. We will lost good nurses, good managers, and the morale will suffer HUGE. Not to mention, the union looks out for the union . The first contract will suck – they’re more interested in getting ANY contract in place so we start paying dues – and then we are stuck with that contract for 3 years. And after that the contracts don’t go that far off the original. Just don’t do it.

    • Bob Siver May 23, 2019 at 11:58 #

      Hello Elise, may I ask what hospital and what union?

  12. Catherine Bagdasarian May 22, 2019 at 16:52 #

    Do not make the mistake of unionizing!! This is how I picture it the union is a business and they will take care of their needs first. A hospital is also a business and will take care of their needs first, their needs however directly effect its workers. When you have a union you cut out your opportunity to communicate with your administration. You must communicate and negotiate with your union reps. These reps I repeat will first carry out their own interests if they have time and resources then maybe will help you. Why would you not want to go directly to your admin and be a part of the solution. If you are having problems in your organization you would have far better luck stepping up to the plate, start a work group, connect with your administration and make your place a better place to work. I have personally seen this done! One person can make a difference, one person, one unit, one floor, one hospital. If you bring in the union you lose the ability to change and work with your team and advocate better health care and working conditions.

    Catherine Bagdasarian

    • Bob Siver May 23, 2019 at 07:33 #

      Good morning- may I ask whether (assuming you’re an RN) you’re a staff nurse or are you in management?

  13. Sherwood May 22, 2019 at 13:26 #

    I won’t censor posts here even the ones with a pseudonym. I have found that it will only limit the message from both sides of the argument and in my experience both pro-union and anti-union voices often choose to be anonymous.
    I believe everyone can weed out who you call “sock puppets” and there are no doubt both pro and anti-union sock puppets out there. Name calling and trolling won’t get anyone very far here. Intelligent, evidence based and factual commentary will. By calling out those who wish to be anonymous you weaken your argument and provide evidence that the union encourages bullying and peer pressure tactics to suppress the message of those who disagree with them.

    Sherwood Cox, BSN RN CCRN

    • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 15:33 #

      Hello Sherwood, not asking for censorship- just pointing that some of the specious yapping might be mitigated by a better doorman.
      I disagree about anonymity, particularly when those who hide behind it are among the most poorly behaved, but hey, it’s your site.
      I think the “anti-union sock puppets” are pretty easily identifiable in the thread below- can you point to any people on my side of the issue who are engaging in the sort of puerile behavior we’re seeing from ‘Anonymoose’ or ‘Union Free’ ?

    • Anony-moose May 24, 2019 at 07:28 #

      Hi Sherwood:
      Apparently Bob (if that’s HIS real name, lol) enjoys it when knowledgable RNs post anonymously. This gives him the “holier than thou” option of ignoring legitimate questions using this red herring reason. Legitimate questions should be answered, whether asked by a real RN (like me) or anyone else. Why is the question somehow out of bounds based on who the person asking may or may not be?

      Bob, These questions are YOUR opportunity to convince people. You’ll never change my mind, but you damn sure might change others by giving thoughtful, legitimate answers to question. Questions like; Hey Bob! Aren’t you angling for a paid union position in your efforts to unionize Beaumont? You see, i’m pretty sure I know this answer, but your continued refusal to address this just confirms it for the others who might otherwise give you the benefit of the doubt.

      One more time, just for you Bob. I post under this name because I know that some of your disciples will harass me and shun me for my position, just like they’re doing with others. Bullies come in all shapes and sizes.

  14. Courtney May 20, 2019 at 18:45 #

    Good luck with staying union free. I led the efforts to get rid of a union that my facility had for years….what I can tell you without a doubt is that it’s incredibly easy to make promises of what they will do or change but they don’t ever actually deliver on them. They need you to ‘hate’ management and their efforts will be put towards fostering that dissension in order to get more people to pay union dues. It’s never about taking care of the nurses or making things better for patients. I can tell you that once we got rid of them we got pay raises for the first time in years and can actually discuss things w management that are concerns instead of having to wait for the union to do anything about it.

    Be prepared for them to fight dirty. I had many a personal attack against me and more attempts to hack my social media then I’ve ever had. They’ll try to bait you-my favorites were the lunch room show downs we had as they tried to get people riled up….the only thing they succeeded at was showing how pathetic they are. They will spread ridiculous lies and attacks-but don’t give up and don’t stoop to their levels….good luck with everything-you have our support! Feel free to reach out if you need anything!

  15. Bob Siver May 20, 2019 at 15:30 #

    I’m a Beaumont Royal Oak nurse. I actually support the union- I just felt there should be at least one other Beaumont Royal Oak nurse (or Beaumont Health Care nurse, or even another nurse from Michigan) leaving a comment here.

    • Lynn S May 21, 2019 at 15:15 #

      Bob. I believe this site is for those they do not want the union. You have your site to comment on now let the nurses who do NOT want the union have their sight without the union putting their nose in it please. Thank you!

      • Sherwood May 21, 2019 at 16:43 #

        Hi Lynn, its good to hear what the pro union people have to say. It would be interesting to hear why Bob supports the union.

        • Bob Siver May 21, 2019 at 17:27 #

          I’d enjoy participating in a dialogue here- with a couple provisions:
          #1 I’d like to know who I’m responding to (first and last names), whether they’re a nurse (and if so, are they currently working as a nurse, and whether they are mgt or engaged in day-to-day pt care), and where they work. By the way, I’m an Emergency Center nurse who actually works at Beaumont Royal Oak, seemingly unlike most people commenting here (aside from Tammy Webster). For instance, ‘UnionFree’ represents themself as a nurse, but for all we know they could be one of the union-busters Beaumont has hired, who have been similarly unwilling to share their full names.
          #2 I’d like a commitment from the moderator not to censor any comments (with the obvious exceptions of any that contain vulgarity, name-calling, or threats).

          • Sherwood May 21, 2019 at 17:45 #

            I am the moderator and I do not censor comments unless they contain profanity or threats or personal information such as addresses or phone numbers. I cannot control how people choose to identify themselves. That is up to the person commenting. Have at it and keep in mind that persons new to the comment section may see a delay in approval of their first comment. I am a full time Critical-Care Nurse and I will check in when I can.

          • Krystal Waldrup May 21, 2019 at 19:56 #

            Hello, I’m an RN at RO Beaumont on the oncology unit. I haven’t fully made a decision on unions but am leaning more toward against. I have talked with many people about unions but most are against it so I haven’t really had a chance to speak with someone who is pro. What do you believe a union could give us that we aren’t able to get ourselves through PNC and other committees? Thanks!

          • Bob Siver May 21, 2019 at 20:06 #

            Alright, thanks for that.
            I understand you have no control over how people identify themselves- however, you would agree that people using only first names (or pseudonyms) and making allusions to impossible to corroborate places and/or events (that may exist only in their imagination) seem to represent the bulk of the comments here, wouldn’t you?

          • Sarah Richter, CRNA May 22, 2019 at 04:33 #

            Krystal, do you feel that your PNC and other committees have any real voice with regards to staffing ratios, pay and benefits, maternity leave? Despite what is being said, our union (the nurses of Royal Oak Beaumont) and the association we have chosen to support our efforts (MNA), haven’t made any promises of things we will get. But having a union will put things in a contract so that administration can’t change policies regarding our pay, benefits, maternity leave and ratios in a dime and when it suits them. THAT is the protection and benefits of a union. I strongly urge you to speak with some people about what has happened to maternity leave at our facility in the past two years and how the changes were announced.

          • Anony-moose May 22, 2019 at 10:57 #

            ahhhh Bob. I knew your true colors would come out. Can’t handle the message, attack the messenger. Isn’t that the union way! They did this to me when I went to their meeting. Ask tough questions? Take her away!!! lol. You’ll be a good union rep, right Bob?

            If you want to “out” me for the sock-puppet, or union breaker, or whatever name you’ll call me next, you should simply stay on the subject and accurately answer my objections. That would show everyone what a fraud i am, right? Who cares if I make up a name? Why does that matter? Show the whole world (or the whole internet) why i’m wrong. Bob?

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 11:50 #

            Hey Sherwood, I appreciate you providing space for an otherwise healthy dialogue, but you really could use a good ‘bouncer’- you have a problem here with people getting in using false ID’s.
            This might be the only time the internet has seen people, e.g. ‘Anony-moose’, ‘UnionFree’, pretending to be Beaumont Royal Oak nurses- it’s not usually the type of thing that lends itself to scamming.

        • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 06:21 #

          Hello Krystal,
          do you have some examples of any substantive improvements to your wages, benefits, and/or working conditions (e.g. staffing ratios) that you’ve received via PNC or other committees? My experience at Beaumont (25 years) is that committees such as the ones you mention are ‘allowed’ by the hospital to drive in somewhat narrowly proscribed lanes, none of which lead to any real meaningful destinations.
          As it stands now, Beaumont reserves the right to give (or takeaway) any of those things, i.e. wages/benefits/working conditions, that are all negotiable through what’s called ‘collective bargaining’- a federally guaranteed right enjoyed, but not exercised, by all working people. In fact, our EC director essentially ‘spilled those beans’ a few weeks ago when she more or less threatened a ‘noisy rabble’ with changing our weekend policy because she had the “unilateral” ability to do that (she convinced a lot of ‘on-the-fence’ people with that remark). Management prefers an environment in which they can unilaterally dictate an employee’s terms of work rather than be forced to negotiate. Unfortunately, this often results in what is essentially ‘bullying’ behavior, e.g. the “unilateral” decision Beaumont made- twice- to decrease the paid time off we had available to us, which was no different than a bigger kid taking away a smaller kid’s lunch money. That doesn’t happen quite so simply when the smaller kid has a big brother, i.e. a union.
          By the way, unions don’t “give us” anything- they empower us to do things for ourselves, collectively and democratically. Unions function in the workplace by the principles of both direct (e.g. contract approval) and representative (e.g. union reps) democracy, identical to our ‘outside the walls of the workplace’ democracy, where you vote directly for things like school millages, and elect members to school boards to represent your interests.
          With respect to opportunities to talk to “pro” union people, come to one of our meetings- at the very least, you meet an interesting cross-section of nurses from around the hospital. One thing that becomes readily apparent is how, because of the arbitrariness allowed by lack of a contract and the clearly defined managerial expectations that would follow, much of a unit’s satisfaction/dissatisfaction is very much ‘manager dependent’, i.e., good manager=more satisfaction, bad manager=less satisfaction. Of course, that’s great if the good manager never leaves, but if/when they do…
          Another venue for you to hear what your “pro” union co-workers from around the hospital are thinking is the Facebook page ‘RNs Unite’.
          If you have any questions I didn’t answer here, contact me on my hospital email (I could also give you my gmail address there, if you don’t want to discuss things on a hospital site).

          • Anony-moose May 22, 2019 at 08:44 #

            Hi Bob:

            Forgive my anonymity. I’m a nurse here at Royal Oak, and although it’s somewhat known that i’m not for this, I just don’t want the hassle that some are getting for coming out strongly against it.

            Bob, I went to one of those meetings, you know, where I could meet a cross section of my co-workers? Well, I didn’t get to meet anyone. Do you know why? I didn’t meet anyone else at the meeting because the organizers saw me as someone who was against it, or perhaps one of the others there told them so. I was segregated from the rest of the meeting, and my “cross section” of co-workers. Can you even call it a “cross section” when the union only selects pro-union people to be in their meeting? I was hoping to respectfully ask some tough questions for others to hear. Why would a union who purports to representing all of us only want to hear from those that agree with them? Will Bob Siver get better representation than I do? I think that’s probable.

            Here’s an even more important question; Will Bob Siver be that person who receives my dues money as a newly appointed union rep, and be that guy I have to go to in order to “be heard?” Is there a pot of gold for you at the end of this? I heard they’re “giving us our own union.” Does that mean high paying union rep jobs for those that help the union het in here? Is this why you’re so motivated? hmmmm.

            You talk about collective bargaining being a “a federally guaranteed right enjoyed, but not exercised, by all working people.” You left out the many people who have exercised that right, but clearly do NOT enjoy it. Huron Valley comes to mind.

            Finally, I must laugh at your assertion that Beaumonts actions are likened to “bullying.” The only bullies around here these days are the ones who make it necessary to post here “anony-moosely”.

            Bob, yes we have problems here. But i’ll suggest to you that the problems we have are problems that many in our industry share. This is still a good place to be, warts and all. I LIKE my leaders! Giving our money to a union, and perhaps eventually you personally, will likely result in similar results to those experiences at Huron Valley, and not at all like UofM, a unionized hospital for decades now, with available, and somewhat unlimited, public funding. Probably an unfair comparison, don’t you think?

            C’mon Bob. Come clean and talk to us like we’re not minions. What’s in this for you?

          • Union Free May 22, 2019 at 08:46 #

            I am, in fact, a registered nurse in Michigan with more than 30 years of experience. I’ve worked the last 12 years for Beaumont Health. I choose to remain anonymous (as is my right) so that I can avoid the personal attacks that others have experienced. I have a professional reputation and family to protect. The tone of your emails and accusations therein don’t give me any degree of confidence that you would not stoop to that level because I disagree with you. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I have made an educated, informed decision based on my research. I have listened to both sides. I have no need to tear down others to make my voice heard.

            I am not making “allusions to impossible to corroborate places and/or events”. This is public information located on the National Labor Relations website. The LM2 report is required by law to be filed by the MNA. It is, in essence, their income tax report. All monies taken in and disbursed must be accounted for. In their 2017 report, on pages 38/39 it lists “Firekeeper’s casino and conference center”. Conference center: $6705, Total non-itemized transactions $1466, total $8,171. On page 43 it lists “Firekeeper’s casino and conference center” – facility use and food = $25,096; Total non-itemized transactions =$9547, total $34,643.

            To view for yourself, here’s how:
            Search “lm2 query”
            The first link that pops up is a connection to the Dept of Labor. It says “search”. Click on that
            Under the box on the top of the page that says “special announcement” it says “enter file number if known”. Enter 067-961. The MNA report will come up.

            I am a Beaumont nurse, and I do NOT want union representation.

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 09:39 #

            This will be the first and last time I respond to anyone who won’t provide their full names, particularly if they identify themselves as a Beaumont Royal Oak nurse- please, feel free to contact me on our hospital email so that I can verify you are what you claim to be- a Beaumont Royal Oak/Health Care nurse. As you can see (unlike yourselves), I made a good faith effort to respond to a question from someone respectful enough- and not too cowardly- to leave their name. If you prefer to converse on something other than a Beaumont website, I’ll gladly provide you with my gmail address or phone number (where I’ll guarantee your anonymity).
            Otherwise, I’m just going to assume that anyone identifying themselves as a Beaumont (Royal Oak) nurse without providing means for verification is one of the union-busters Beaumont has hired, inasmuch as hiding their identities and spreading misinformation seems to be their modus operandi.
            By the way, you might be a little more convincing if you didn’t post your comments within 2 minutes of each other- gee, why would I possibly think they were orchestrated?

          • Anony-moose May 22, 2019 at 10:00 #


            I see what you did there! So why does it matter if i’m a Royal Oak nurse (I am) or a union breaker? The questions I posed to you are legitimate, and you should answer them. Did I strike a nerve that will cause you to storm away in a cloud of indignance? Is that preferable to actually answering them? I’m sorry if you thought my questions were disrespectful, but they were legitimate, and you, like the union, shouldn’t be afraid of tough questions without making up some red-herring reason to not respond.

          • Sarah Richter, CRNA May 22, 2019 at 10:08 #

            Bob, thank you for highlighting that these anonymous writers aren’t actual Beaumont Royal Oak nurses. I was busy typing a long response regarding some accusations of things happening at our union informational meetings and regarding individuals feeling personally attacked, because none of that is accurate or the message organizers are sending, at all. Thank you for saving my time and effort.

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 10:28 #

            This definition is from Wikipedia- it might be helpful to keep in mind when reading this comment thread:
            A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term, a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an Internet community who spoke to, or about, themselves while pretending to be another person
            The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a person or organization, to manipulate public opinion, or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website.

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 10:32 #

            You’re welcome, Sarah- slaying sockpuppets, one pair at a time.

          • Tammy Webster May 22, 2019 at 11:40 #

            Hi Bob,

            You know me! You used my first post as a lovely e-mail to send out to your colleagues. Anyway, please answer the questions if you would, regardless of who may have posted them. Can you address the LM-2 report? Can you address how MNA is so “different” from other unions that they revoked the newly given right when Michigan was granted to be a “Right to Work” state? Let me explain: MNA and U of M execs “renegotiated” U of M’s contract a year EARLY, (WITHOUT most of the PNC being aware) making all those who would exercise their newly granted right NOT to join a union stuck in a contract for another 5 years! Sounds just like any other union to me. Can you answer why pro-union keeps comparing U of M benefits to Beaumont when U of M has an endowment fund that as of June 2018 was $11.9 BILLION…yes, with a “B”. Have you actually read the Huron Valley Contract? I have and I’m not impressed! I don’t know about you, but when I am about to “hire” a company to make a large change in my life, I usually judge them on their past work. If that contract is any indication of their potential, I will pass. The MNA rep keeps referring to that fact that it took 30 months to ratify the contract due to “staffing language”. The 3/4 of a page of language written… that took 30 months to get…again, is not impressive. It states nothing. Why do you believe that a union will win us anything when we are the first to attempt to unionize out of 8 hospitals? Anything that we currently have, can be negotiated to be taken away. Why would anyone want to be a part of this?

          • Anony-moose May 22, 2019 at 12:01 #


            Don’t forget to ask him if he’s in line for a high-paying union rep job after he helps the union get in here. He not-so-softly avoided that question, as well as all of the others from me. Maybe he’ll answer you.

            “We are the union might be more aptly “he” are the union.

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 12:50 #

            actually, I consider you one of my colleagues. Sorry if I didn’t share credit with you when I wrote that letter- I wasn’t sure you wanted your name out there beyond this website. I think I addressed most of your concerns- do you have any questions about it?
            With respect to the MNA LM-2, I don’t see anything particularly insidious about it- like many other organizations, labor unions have conventions, seminars, etc. That you found that information so easy to obtain actually speaks well of the transparency with which the MNA operates.
            Regarding the UoM endowment fund, that is for the University of Michigan- the 45,000 student public university- not the hospital. That’s an important distinction.
            Also regarding UofM, you seem to be misinformed with respect to their contract with the MNA- it’s a 3 year contract negotiated in 2018, and right-to-work is a state law in Michigan. My knowledge of the law is not too sophisticated, but I don’t believe that the UofM contract (or any contract) can supersede state (or federal) law.
            Regarding the Huron Valley Sinai contract, I have in fact read it and it seems just fine (particularly considering it’s their first contract- typically, successive negotiations improve on the previous contract). However, what you or I think about it is a moot point- the Huron Valley Sinai/MNA nurses liked it and ratified it. What you seem to think reflects poorly on the Huron Valley Sinai contract actually does just the opposite- Beaumont Royal Oak/MNA nurses would negotiate and ratify a contract tailored to our concerns, not the concerns or approbation of Huron Valley Sinai nurses. Most people would find that kind of autonomy desirable.
            Finally, you assert “(a)nything that we currently have, can be negotiated to be taken away.” That’s incorrect. Anything we currently have can simply be taken away by Beaumont (similar to what they’ve taken from us previously. I was never asked- were you?) There is no obligation for the hospital to negotiate as they would be with union representation.
            Thanks for writing.

          • Anony-moose May 22, 2019 at 13:26 #


            Ask Bob the future union rep if the Huron Valley nurses voted to accept that sub-par agreement, or if they were forced to choose between the bad contract and going on strike? Big difference! That’s how this union works. The nurses at Huron Valley accepted that lousy deal because the alternative was to go on strike. There was no third option. They gained NOTHING.

            Bob is fighting so hard because he wants to be our union rep. Union membership will be very lucrative for him.

          • Krystal Waldrup May 22, 2019 at 19:57 #

            Full disclosure, I don’t have time right now to read through all the comments that have been posted since last night so I can only respond to you.
            I have only been here at Beaumont for about 2.5 years so I might be a bit naive when it comes to the true outcomes of the committees. However, coming from a hospital system that didn’t even give this chance (DMC – Detroit Receiving), I was amazed by Beaumonts efferts to include their nurses in discussions and feedback. At Receiving, there was very little (if any) ways to give feedback to either Tenet or Vanguard (the two companies that owned DMC while I worked there) and there was barely any ways to even find out when things were changed. The PNC meetings at least allow us nurses to find out about changes as they happen and give feedback to the changes (yes, I understand that things don’t always get changed based on this feedback). I fear that if a union is created, we will lose all these committees and be in a position that I was in at DMC, being in the dark.
            Advocating for ourselves did actually affect the staffing on our unit. I was told that a couple years ago, it was brought up on one of the safety surveys that the accuity on the oncology unit was fast increasing and we were given an extra nurse on both shifts.
            Pertaining to pay increases, I also fear that the same thing will happen here that happened with the DMCs. I was at Receiving around the time that Huron Valley was unionizing and I got a pretty nice raise as a relatively new nurse. Of course they could not tell us that it was due to Huron Valley unionizing but a lot of us assumed as much since Huron Valley did not get anything. What is stopping Beaumont from doing the same thing to us to discourage the other hospitals from unionizing?

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 21:43 #

            Hi Krystal- I hope I get this comment nested correctly- this thread is getting a little hard to navigate.
            Respectfully, I think you may in fact be a little naive regarding so called “Self Governance”- those committee’s do feel good, but in their current incarnation at Beaumont, any impact they have is more illusory than real. Now with a union to give them a little clout…
            Concerning your fear of losing committees, the MNA has a pretty good track record in that regard- in fact, they’re pretty well represented among Magnet hospitals in the state (including Huron Valley Sinai). And frankly, it’s unlikely on it’s face that a union comprised entirely of nurses (with only nurses determining union priorities) would abandon a model that worked for and was desired by it’s members.
            Regarding Tenet Healthcare, I have nothing good to say…they are an extreme example of what’s wrong with the American healthcare system. That Beaumont compares favorably isn’t surprising.
            If in fact advocating for yourselves did result in better staffing, that’s good to hear. It’s also the exception that proves the rule- you aren’t going to find too many more examples of the hospital indulging it’s staff like that.
            Finally, that’s perceptive of you to realize that you were rewarded as a result of efforts of Huron Valley Sinai nurses- it’s also an example of the duplicitous of Tenet and corporations like them. What’s to stop Beaumont from doing the same thing? Nurses like you and me standing up for each other. By the way, the fact you think to ask that question says something about the way you perceive Beaumont’s high regard for us “50th percentile” nurses.

          • Krystal Waldrup May 23, 2019 at 00:42 #

            Bob, don’t get me wrong, I do believe that Beaumont as a company is more compansionate than a purely for-profit company like Tenet but I also know that Beaumont is still a business and that money/resources have to come from somewhere. So let’s say that the union is voted in and a contract is signed that mandates patient ratios of 1:5 on a med/surg unit like the one I work on, I would love that! However, if many nurses call in and the NRT is unable to cover for those nurses, am I (as a low senority nurse) going to be mandated to stay afterward and work? I love my paitents and I do care about their safety but I also have a life outside of work that I like swiping out and rejoining at 0730. Same goes with raises, where does the money come from? Will we lose other resources like the IV team, just like we lost the admitting team when the IV team was formed?

            Also, if the union is formed, will we still be able to go to our managers with issues or will I/she get in trouble for not having a union rep with us? Who will these union reps even be? Recently, a few of our newest nurses on the night shift were upset that they had to work all of the unpaid holidays (mother’s day, Easter, ect). So, a vote was held and it was agreed that everyone would work two of them and rotate. If this came up while we were under contract, would we even be allowed to hold a vote within our own unit with our managers? How will the union handle small unit-based disparities and make sure each unit’s issues are represented?

            I understand people are unhappy with the cuts to PTO (trust me, I am too) and I admit I don’t know what other changes have happened as I have only been here for 2-ish years. I agree with what you said earlier that happiness at Beaumont could be very unit-based so I am probably more anti-union based on the fact that I am on a unit where I believe nurse satifation is much higher.

          • Krystal Waldrup May 23, 2019 at 00:54 #

            Forgot to add that I wouldn’t mind going to a pro-union meeting to see what it is that other nurses/units are having problems with. I just hope that I won’t be censored or treated poorly due to being anti-union? Thanks for your comments, Bob!

          • Bob Siver May 23, 2019 at 06:17 #

            Good morning Krystal,
            if you don’t mind, last things first- all Beaumont Royal Oak nurses (as well as Beaumont Troy nurses, Beaumont Grosse Pointe nurses, etc- don’t be surprised if you run into them) are welcome at organizing meetings. Keep in mind, some of the ‘horror’ stories you may be reading or hearing are by some of the same ostensibly shy people hiding behind pseudonyms and acting pretty foolish on this thread- no details, just vague allusions. That’s pretty much the stock-in-trade of the anti-union industry- make people afraid, because fearful people won’t stand up for themselves. And by the way, there’s no ‘segregation’ of anti-union nurses, because no one knows who the anti-union nurses are- in a hospital with over 3000 nurses, that’s simply impossible (in fact, I only know a relative handful of our nurse organizers personally). People usually sit wherever they find an open chair or table, frequently with other people from the units they work together in.
            As I wrote to Tammy, I attended a meeting I believe she was at, sitting in the back of the room. If you’ve ever run a meeting, you know there are logistical issues involved, and this particular meeting was formatted somewhat differently from others we’ve had (most of the organizers agreed this format would need improving if used again). Having now read some of her subsequent concerns, I’d venture to guess it was Tammy asking about strikes- frankly, I’d have been satisfied spending the entire meeting talking about unions and collective actions. Unfortunately, much of the meeting was spent discussing the MNA Political Action Committee, which, while important, didn’t deserve the bulk of the short amount of time we rented the meeting room for. I actually was heading back toward the ‘strike question’ table at the end of the meeting, but got momentarily sidetracked- unfortunately, by the time I was free, the table was empty. Anyway, if you’re apprehensive about coming to a meeting, don’t be- if you want, I’ll escort you in myself, or if I can’t make it, Liz, or Mary Beth, or Irina, or Mike, or Philomena, or Sue, or James…we’re pretty nice people, and none of us bite.
            With respect to your questions about staffing, scheduling, etc- long story short, everything is negotiable, including flexibility according to the needs of a particular unit. I work in EC- I wouldn’t expect we’d be able to run the EC based on the same things that would make your unit run successfully. It would be up to all of the nurses in their respective units to determine the working conditions that work best for them, which would then be negotiated (clearly, not overnight in a hospital as large as ours). I understand your concern about nurse/patient ratios (by the way, I think 1:5 is too high and inherently unsafe.The MNA lobbies for safe staffing ratios- the hospital association Beaumont belongs to lobbies against them) as well as forced overtime. Of course, there are (negotiable) alternatives- do you think people would be more inclined to fill empty shifts if more compensation was offered? Would it be less painful to holdover if even higher compensation was offered/hours were capped/hours were subtracted from other shifts, etc. Be creative- like I wrote: everything is negotiable.
            With respect to your relationship to your managers, nothing needs to change (other than a more formalized disciplinary procedure in which you’d be entitled to have a union rep present). I know where you’re coming from- my managers and charge nurses are my friends- I wouldn’t advocate for the union if I thought they’d be harmed by it. Frankly, I think they stand to gain as much as we do, particularly if we are successful in establishing safe patient ratios at Beaumont, and ultimately at the state level- if I were to guess, staffing is probably the single biggest headache our managers have (by the way, I think this might be the single biggest reason hospitals fear the MNA- the potential political power of nurses advocating on behalf of ourselves and our patients. We’re the ones who recognize the increased risks as we go from 4, to 5, to 6, and even more patients). Unfortunately, I think some managers might be feeling unionization is a sign of their own personal failure (and I wouldn’t doubt that might be encouraged by their bosses) as opposed to a reaction to a systemic failure that starts over on Northwestern Highway.
            With respect to asking where the money would come from, that’s a legitimate question, and one that would be examined in detail as negotiations proceeded. Of course, just about every employer everywhere has pleaded economic hardship as an excuse to underpay, cut corners, etc, sometimes legitimately, oftentimes not. Just as legitimate a question is where the money comes from to pay million dollar salaries to our nursing administrators (when some nights have seen one person from environmental responsible for cleaning a 1000+ bed hospital), or where the money comes from to fly hospital administrators from Atlanta to Detroit and back every week.
            Finally, you mention the hospital eliminating the IV team- as far as I know, Beaumont has never had an IV team. The nurses who were/are called for hard to start IV’s are from the Rapid Response Team, which has experienced reductions in staff but not responsibilities. Trust me, they would love to be there to help their fellow nurses with IV’s, but they’re drawn in too many directions. They recognized the impact on nurses and patients alike. You know what they did? They fought back- some of the first nurse organizers are from RRT, and I’m proud to say they’re my friends.

          • Bob Siver May 23, 2019 at 09:11 #

            Hello again, Krystal,
            I’ve got an addendum to your own addendum. I was out doing some mindless yardwork (which is when I do some of my better thinking- I should probably start a lawn service) when it occurred to me, what is not intended as hostility by union organizers may be perceived that way by people such as yourself.
            Unions are in my DNA from several generations back, so this is a pretty easy segue for me. However, most people didn’t experience living room visits from union leaders or educational seminars during Sunday dinner at grandma’s. Walking into a meeting room, already anticipating hostility and pushback is actually a pretty brave step, and even more so if you speak up and feel like you’re being shouted down. I’m thinking it would be helpful if, at the start of meetings, ground rules were established that would allow any speaker (for or against) to call for a ‘time out’ if they felt under seige. I’m not sure how all the details would be worked out (it’s not uncommon for 3 minutes or so to be allowed during mandatory public comment sections of open public meetings- maybe something like that), with a chairperson reserving the right to pound the gavel if things like personal attacks should occur. It would also prevent a single person with a personal agenda from side-tracking a meeting.

    • Jim Bixler May 22, 2019 at 13:13 #

      So Bob can you tell me exactly what you hope to o accomplish through a Union. Oh by the way my name is Jim Bixler and I am an RN at RO.

      • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 15:13 #

        Hello Jim,
        very simply, the opportunity to negotiate better wages, benefits, and working conditions that would be subsequently guaranteed for the duration of the ratified contract. For instance, Beaumont has determined that ’50th percentile compensation’ is adequate for nurses at one of the premier health care institutions in the state and midwest, despite the fact we’re frequently asked to care for the ’99th percentile’ of sick or injured patients that come to us for care, oftentimes sent from facilities that compensate more generously than the ’50th percentile’. I disagree- I think we’re better than ’50th percentile’. I’d like the ability to say a meaningful ‘no!’ the next time the hospital decides we need less PTO time. I’d like to work toward some staffing safeguards (that are urgently needed in departments such as my own) so that myself and my co-workers didn’t feel like we were compromising one person’s safety in order to care for another.
        However, underlying those concerns is the opportunity to participate in actual democratic self-government in my place of work (and not the faux “Self Government” that Beaumont allows us to pretend at). Democracy and the ability to self-govern is our most important freedom, and I don’t think it needs to end when I swipe a time-clock.

        • Anony-moose May 22, 2019 at 17:20 #

          Hi Jim:
          Please ask Bob:

          –If collective bargaining truly brought democracy in the workplace, and truly gave you the opportunity to say a meaningful ‘NO!’ to Beaumont when they decide to pigeon hole us into the 50th percentile, what, pray tell, will we possibly do when the hospital, as a result of collective bargaining, decides to change their strategy to sayyyyyy…the 40th percentile? or 30th?? What now? Will you strike? Will you ask us to abandon our patients for something Bob wants, like his own office here? How does that advance our cause of advocating for them? I’m an open book. Convince me.

          Please ask Bob:

          –If democracy and the “ability to self-govern in our place of work” is what the union can offer us, why….WHY BOB, does the MNA Constitutional Bylaws have a WHOLE SECTION on disciplining their own members who would dare to question them and break their tree-house style rules. What’s good for the goose?? Why the hell would I ever pay someone to discipline me? Bob???

          Please ask Bob:

          –If the union trashes us in the press like they did Huron Valley, and we lose our Magnet status as a result, like Huron Valley, and patients drive to another hospital as a result of the unions smear job on our hospital, like they did at Huron Valley, will Bob still collect a paycheck as our new paid union rep? Never mind. Don’t ask him that. His silence on this issue says all I need to know

          Please TELL Bob:

          –While his aspirations are admirable, the truth is that in the real world life just doesn’t work like that. Unions have lost members for decades, and for good reason. If they were actually DOING all of these awesome things you say they “might” do here, they’d have millions more members than they do, and it wouldn’t matter what anyone tells us. We’d join. But they don’t. I don’t need to pay part of my paycheck to Bob only to hear him tell me later on that “we’ll do better next time”, like they told my friends at Huron Valley.

          Yeah….you tell him that. He won’t talk to me.

        • Tammy Webster May 22, 2019 at 18:08 #


          I apologize for not being very clear in my last statement and I do appreciate your perspective. I only mentioned your collegues as I did not receive the e-mail that you sent, I read about it on the pro-union Facebook page.

          As far as the U of M endowment, according to the U of M website, all of the monies are collected into one fund. Those monies are invested and U of M spends 4.5% of it per year. Of that 4.5%, 21% has been designated (by the donor) to go to MIchigan Health, also known as U of M Hospital. I did the math, that is over 112 Million dollars per year being put back into the hospital. That is above and beyond that reimbursement the hospital receives for the care it provides. I will send you the email of the information and pie charts they provided if you would like, or you can google it.

          As far as MNA’s character, being “not like” other unions, I was not referring to the most recent contract that was ratified by U of M in 2018. I was referring to the contract that was negotiated and ratified FIVE years before that. Lets talk history: Michigan was not a “Right to Work” state prior to 2013. This means in order to work for a company that had a union, you had to join the union. The law was changed late 2012 and took effect March 28th, 2013. Any union/company that was under contract prior to March 28th, 2013 would still require their employees to be a part of the union and pay union dues. What is really interesting is that U of M’s current contract (at that time) was not set to expire until 2014. There was a conversation that took place between MNA (I’m going assume higher than the nurses at U of M) and U of M execs. I can only imagaine the conversation went a little something like… “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours!” Amazingly, negotiations were opened an entire year early, a contract was ratified before March 28th, and as I stated before, employees of U of M that were just granted a new right for becoming a “Right to Work” state (not join the union or pay dues), well that was going to have to wait 5 years. U of M PNC members came forward and stated they had no idea these negotiations were taking place. Doesn’t sound like any better of a union than the next.

          I have also read the MNA bylaws, as “Anony-moose” stated, with rules like “conform to our by-laws”, and that they can take over our bargaining unit if they so choose??? I have to agree that it doesn’t sound very democratic to me! I already work for Beaumont, I don’t want to pay for someone to have evne more control over my life!

          Could you please answer my original questions:
          1. How is MNA any different than any other union?
          2. Why is pro-union continuously comparing us to U of M? With those expectations, i believe some people will be more dissappointed with the union than I would be!

          • Bob Siver May 22, 2019 at 20:40 #

            Hello Tammy,
            that you seem to have been welcomed onto ‘RNs Unite’ suggests that MNA supporters are not necessarily averse to reading opposing views. It’s my understanding the anti-union Facebook page is not quite as embracing of all Beaumont Royal Oak nurses.
            Also, I was told you were at one of the organizing meetings I happened to attend (I’ve gotta’ confess- I haven’t been to that many), where you had questions regarding collective actions (particularly strikes) available to organized labor. I think it’s safe to say that not only myself, but most of the other organizers present would have preferred to have spent more time on your concern- unfortunately, a disproportionate amount of the all-too-short meeting time was devoted to the issue of the MNA PAC, an important but somewhat ancillary issue at this point of organizing. With respect to strikes, if you are the person I’m thinking of, you seemed to fear their inevitability- honestly, I don’t think the subject is worth you getting wound up about. They are by far the exception, not the rule.
            You ask me to explain 5 year old events at UofM as well as perform an exegesis on UofM finances- unfortunately, I’m not really qualified to write with erudition on either subject. I could try to get the name of someone at UofM familiar with what happened in 2014 and ask if they’ll get in touch with you- assuming I could arrange that, would you be interested? With respect to financial issues, one of our nurse organizers is somewhat of a savant- would you want to talk to him?
            You ask how the Michigan Nurses Association is different than any other union- the name says it all. Unlike any other union, the MNA is comprised of nearly 14,000 Michigan nurses, the MNA Board of Directors is comprised exclusively of nurses, the MNA House of Delegates is comprised exclusively of nurses, and the MNA Bylaws Committee (which oversees changes to MNA bylaws- a constitution and bylaws is required of all labor organizations) is comprised exclusively of nurses, all of whom are elected by union members in good standing (did I mention that nearly 14,000 Michigan nurses comprise the MNA membership?). Frankly, I’m somewhat disappointed you have such a dim view of nurses, that you think so many could be so easily deceived by….other nurses?
            I can’t speak for every union supporter, but the main reason I compare Beaumont Royal Oak to UofM is because I think that highly of Beaumont Royal Oak- again, I’m somewhat disappointed (as well as surprised) that a Beaumont Royal Oak nurse doesn’t think we belong in that same league.
            Finally, I’m sorry you anticipate disappointment with the union- hopefully you’ll change your mind when our first contract is ratified.

          • Bob Siver May 23, 2019 at 13:49 #

            Hi Tammy, I guess I should have consulted Professor Google before posting my previous comment. You wrote ” U of M PNC members came forward and stated they had no idea these negotiations were taking place.”
            Actually, according to this article,
            everyone in Ann Arbor (including the UofM PNC, mentioned by name in the article) was aware of the contract being re-opened. Sounds like your source was somewhat uninformed.
            Also, just one question about a requirement to follow bylaws not sounding very democratic. Actually, most forms of governments, including participatory democracies, have rules and regulations. Are you advocating for anarchy with your seeming dismissal of the rule of law?

          • Anony-moose May 24, 2019 at 07:38 #

            Hi Tammy:
            Remind Bob that the link he provided only points out that the UNION requested re-upping. The article also is pretty clear in why they did it, and it certainly wasn’t because it was in the best interests of the RN’s. This was a union business decision that benefits ONLY the union !

            Also remind Bob that if the union constitutional bylaws are so innocent and necessary in a democracy, why then do we have to shame them into providing this guide to the union. Isn’t it their document, in their words? Won’t it BIND us if we join the union? Why then wasn’t this the VERY FIRST THING they provided to us? Shouldn’t they be holding meetings to educate us on what’s in it? They don’t because they don’t want us to see what’s behind their shell. They don’t want us to know that despite the fact that we’ll pay them our money, they can fine Beaumont RNs for breaking their rules. So much for us being the union, huh Bob.

            Yeah Tammy….ask Bob. He doesn’t talk to me

  16. UnionFree May 20, 2019 at 12:27 #

    As nurses we are educated, strong, intelligent, hard working women and men. We don’t need to pay someone else to speak for us – especially when that someone has their own agenda and can translate the speech you give into asking for something completely different. Look at the MNA LM report – it will show you where the dues they collect from nurses are spent. Over 7 MILLION dollars collected from Michigan nurses, and a little over $200K actually spent on members. Lots of money for “conferences” at Firekeeper’s Casino, including nearly $10K “non-itemized” reimbursements. Look at the salaries for more employees than I can count, including board members (usually a volunteer position) ranging from hundreds to thousands of dollars.

    There are other ways to make our voices heard. Don’t be fooled.

  17. KATHLEEN HYDRUSKO May 20, 2019 at 08:43 #

    I encourage you to stay the course. Idid at my hospital and it works, Unions help to keep poor workers and will not fight for the good, they will take away your communication with managers and small concerns will be blown up out of the sky. In my hospital they wanted 1600$ from each nurse per year! We held signs on the road, Imade a video and we beat them. Also we would have voting for who they chose if we liked them or not {dems}. So please don’t fall for their stories,,it’s just not good. I have worked for unions hospitals and it was horrible. STAY STRONG.

  18. Nurse Flo May 20, 2019 at 06:13 #

    Beaumont RNs stand strong! You have more power right now than you could ever have with a union–if a union possessed the power they claim, why would there ever be strikes? Why do nurses at unionized facilities still complain about pay and staffing levels? Unions are antiquated, trying to stay relevant in a culture where we have learned to stand up for ourselves and our patients. California RNs are sending strength and positive energy to you!

  19. Jennifer May 19, 2019 at 21:42 #

    It was such a fight for us to get rid of the union out here in California!! After so long of doing nothing for us and constantly lying about what was going on- we were FINALLY able to run them out ourselves!!! It’s not easy, and you will feel threatened by their tactics, but don’t lose heart! The union has only THEIR best interests in heart. Highly it helps to know that we were successful!! It cam be done! And we were so much better off after! Finally got out raises and were able to work with management to get things done!!j

  20. mark smith May 19, 2019 at 21:41 #

    A union was voted in by our hospital in 2012. Myself and several others removed the union. This took some work but was well wort it. The union attempted to stop the Hospital from building a new ER by using the build as a negotiation tactic. The new ER was critical to the community as we had one hospital in the city with a 16 bed ER for a population of 167,000 residents. The union does not care about the patients. Or your ability to care for them. They care about your money (union dues). I have assisted in removing unions from 5 hospitals. It is very possible to remove any union. The last one was in place for 16 years in Vegas and was removed.

  21. Monica Reyes May 19, 2019 at 20:01 #

    I check this website quite often to let my fellow nurses out there hear the truth about union organizing. I worked at a hospital in california that organized and voted in a union. The campaign was absolutely horrendous for staff to go through. Nurses were divided, friendships were lost. In the end the union won by a very small margin, instantly their promises that they made became apparent that they were empty promises that they could not fulfill. The nurses were unaware that the promises they were making they could never carry out. It took two years to get to the negotiating table and once we did we bargained for another two years and still nothing. In that time all of the nurses that were there to start the union had left leaving everybody who didn’t want it with the Union of empty promises and nothing to fulfill. I left along with several other nurses a place that I was very happy with prior to the union coming in. Now I work at a unionized hospital because it’s the closest to me and pays well. The pay is not because of the Union however because the non-union positions make more than other hospitals. It’s horrible being there, you can’t switch schedules because of Union rules you can’t get days off because of Union rules they foster bad behavior and poor teamwork. They seem to protect those lazy ones. I’m looking to leave there too. Please DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF UNIONIZING. There are always better ways

  22. Nick B May 16, 2019 at 21:40 #

    Be strong fellow nurses. I’m an Emergency Department nurse and worked in a union hospital in California. The experience was terrible. Uncaring. Unhelpful. Low morale. Strength in numbers works for us too. No union

  23. Nick May 16, 2019 at 21:33 #

    Good for you Kristina. Grassroots is super important in union avoidance. Excellent post!
    Remember everyone, unions use campaign propaganda to get support, but its just that (empty promises).
    Keep up the hard work and fight to keep Beaumont union free

  24. Kristina Hoerl May 7, 2019 at 15:25 #

    I am one of the leads in the Grassroots effort to keep NNU out of Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. There was a small handful of nurses who reached out to NNU in August of 2017. They went public with their organizing campaign in March of 2018. We are now in may of 2019. There has been no call for a vote. Many of those initial organizers have left the organization and the remaining have not really been able to keep up or build new momentum. While I know the union will never admit that they lost, essentially at this point there efforts have withered away. They will say the had to leave because Hopkins created too hostile of an environment that the nurses were too intimidated. I can tell you, that is not the case. They have filed several ULPs only one of which is being looked at further by the NLRB and it is for one supposed violation of the law. The original compliant they filed had about 6 complaints and NNU withdrew them. Know, they will try all sorts of tricks. Be sure you have a core group of grassroots leaders to help spread the load and be there to allow people to tag out for a brief period of time to recharge. Than research, study, challenge. Ask them to provide hard evidence, actual numbers not just rhetoric. Practice how to talk with the organizers, they will try really hard to get you riled and then get pics and video to discredit you. Practice helps and I promise you,they have been well trained in intimidation. Be sure you have strong security on all your social media accounts. You can succeed in making them move back into the shadows. It will take time. Oh, and if you ever get called a scab, tell them scab are signs of healing and you’d rather be a scab than a festering sore. Good luck.

  25. RN May 4, 2019 at 23:14 #

    I would love to type more, while on break. This computer at work keeps booting me off the site. How can I debate if I can’t even write a comment for 30 seconds with out getting interrupted. 7x total I tried to write something.

  26. JD April 30, 2019 at 18:56 #

    Oh, and the all the promises they will make.. and never keep.

  27. Tammy Webster April 29, 2019 at 16:56 #

    I am against the union for several reasons:
    -There are a lot of promises when nothing is guaranteed
    -These promises will come at the expense of other items…better staffing for RNs may result in phlebotomy being cut, or respiratory therapist’s duties and jobs being cut, or something similar.
    -Unions do not like Magnet or Shared Governance which is really the voice of the RN
    -Unions limit what you are allowed to do and do not foster teamwork.
    -The main, if not only leverage union negotiations have is for nurses to go on strike. I believe that it is completely WRONG for a nurse to go on strike. I will NOT turn my back on my oncology patients
    -I have spoken with several nurses from other unionized facilities and they are not happy. The union keeps bringing U of M nurses in but U of M is not nearly on the same playing field as Beaumont. U of M is a public university with higher levels of philanthropy and income. If Beaumont were to have the same perks, that would result in a lot of job cutting!
    Let’s not forget that since this new administration has come in, there have been raises and more contributions to our 403Bs. Yes, the progress may be slower than we want, but every business is still trying to account for cuts and changes that were started in 2008. Our voices are being heard and will still be heard without the help of a union, a business mind you, taking our money.

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